Lima Judging issue

[Smith]

Just have a question here but why were not all trucks judged? Rick had come by our area early Saturday morning for judging and judged Chris,one of the guys that are in our group for the modified class. Chris had then asked Rick if he wanted the other two trucks opened up for him. One was mine and the other was Chris' wifes. Rick told him he would be back later for our trucks as he was doing modified and pro first. This was a little after 10. Well I waited by my truck along with Chris's wife Holly Chris and My girlfriend from 930 to 530 and never once did he come back by to judge. I finally got fed up and started crusing the truck to look for Rick but did not see him. This was not only an issue for Holly and I but as i started asking people on Sunday it was an issue for many others. Now as i read on many online forums it was an even bigger problem as well. Did the rain cut judging short or were we just skipped for no apparent reason? Either way me and the many other not only paid our fee to be judged, but also worked hard to clean up our vehicles and prep them along with wasted the day saturday to be judged. Now im not coming here to just complain but more to get an answer along with to help others at future shows to make sure that they too, dont have this problem.

[PIGG]

I agree with the above. I watched the Rick judge the truck next to me, then go to the next truck with out looking at mine. I was wiping the truck off from the drive into the fairgrounds after friday night rain. Someone told me if you were still cleaning Rick would come back to judge. After the rain, I wiped the truck off again, sat around truck all day, and my truck never got judged. Is this a way of saying that my truck does not deserved to be judged? Is it mainly the judges opinion of whats deserving? Sometimes it seems the same people win, with the same set ups, when some of us constintly upgrade or redo the set-ups we got to make it a little better. No dis-respect to anyone. Just like to see different people to win.

[Trained Judging Squirrel]

I hear exactly what you are saying, but I am also reading between the lines. By the sounds of it neither of you (the above participants) were at the Saturday morning seminar; "Someone told me if you were still cleaning Rick would come back to judge." The person that told you was probably someone who attended my seminar. The rest of the comment is for everyone that had the same questions not just Smith and Pigg.

I know there will be questions here on Truck Show Nation and that's ok, I will try to answer the answerable ones, but let me say this. I arrive early to each and every show to host a judging Seminar on Saturday mornings. This is to give participants a heads up on what to except and answer all questions pertaining to judging. I highlighted this subject on a blog on this very site (TruckShowNation.com), it is in the news letter you receive in the mail, it is on the Schedule of Events at every show, and it is announced on the PA system throughout the fairgrounds a half hour before it takes place. The first BIG Jamboree "Lima", I had maybe thirty (30) participants at this seminar, a seminar that will effect 1900+ vehicles. It would be nice if everyone that attends a Jamboree were a member of Truck Show Nation, I would not have to have a Saturday morning seminar…sadly all the participants are not members. So I have seminars.

If you were at my seminar you would have heard me state "I will not judge every vehicle, I don't have to". That’s right, I do not have nor am I able to. Now let me clarify this statement by example. If after looking at the first fifteen (15) Jeeps (Modified) of the day, I pencil in my Best Jeep pick at 11:30 AM (a complete pkg. interior, paint, suspension, etc.). I am now looking for something that can beat that Best Jeep; do I have to crawl under every Jeep I now run across? No, only those Jeeps that look like they come close to or beat my tentative Best Jeep pick. When I do run across something that comes close to or surpasses it, I will then crawl around this possible prospect, make notes and either leave the Jeep I have in place or start erasing.

Drive through judging is the same way. If that same Jeep rolls through at 11:30 in the morning I score it accordingly. I may drool on it and compliment the owner but I always leave room for something better that may roll through later. And believe me at our Jamborees you have a 50% chance that something will come along that is better…hands down. There are just a lot of top quality vehicles at all the Jamborees.

This is how all the spots are filled…methodical and calculated, I am not driving or walking around aimlessly or snubbing you intentionally. I have a lot of ground to cover in a very short amount of time. I drove through the Lima Fairgrounds no less than four (4) times and then when it became too congested, I walked the grounds five (5) times…and that is only on Saturday. And when I say drive I mean drive to a cluster of vehicles or vehicle get off that golf cart, crawl around and take some notes.

Another big difference is I am driving and walking the grounds on Sunday, is your vehicle still parked somewhere on the grounds? Or did I see it on a trailer? The rules state you must not load up until after the Award Ceremony. I changed three (3) “Best Awards” because the vehicles were on trailers either Saturday night or early Sunday morning. One of those vehicles was in the hotel parking lot I was staying at early Saturday night…on a trailer. The runner ups in those three categories took the “Best Awards” instead. Pigg was still there, I saw his vehicle (Best Paint Modified Class), and so were everyone that took an award, why were so many trucks gone? If all of the winners’ vehicles (top shelf vehicles) were on the grounds until Awards, why was so much of the field gone?

I have been into motorsports all of my life, I have shown cars and four-wheel-drive vehicles. My (open top) Jeep was always on the grounds until after Awards…rain or shine. But I also empathize with all of the participants, I honestly know what it is like for my vehicle to be in the rain, hail, snow even an Indy tornado.

And yes, different participants did win classes that they had never won before, but if it is drive through or walk around and judge the top trucks will rise to the top. Just because I come to you now does not mean I now do not see the other quality trucks. But some positions did change.

[Deviant]

i was at the meeting and am trying to remain on the fence and look at it from both sides. my biggest question is. if the judging is being changed to involve more vehicles why are there less awards being handed out? i understand the fact that some people dont judge and probably should, but it seems to me that there are now more vehicles in the mix so why recognize even less for there accomplishments? i did see him look at some vehicles that i know have never been judged before that have attended the event, if they cut the mustard or not is a different story. i can imagine that it has to be hard on the judges part, and there will always be people on both sides of the fence about it, but what happens when there are more on the negative side than the positive. i also wanna say that i attended the meeting and had no clue that there were gonna be so many less people recognized, at awards i was shocked at the low numbers of winners. whats gonna happen in indy when the field size is so much greater?

[PIGG]

OK. I see what your saying. About the "best" vehicle. Because I parked next to Hillbilly Deluxe and My Dads truck. If you judged either of there trucks, they got me beat. I can live with that. I do agree with DEVIANT about Less awards given, why did they get rid of the 1st 2nd 3rd? I think that motivated people to do more to work there way up, if you get absolute nothing, and dont even know your close to winning why would you do anymore to your truck? and will there be more classes for the Indy show when their are so many more trucks. And I think the Participants Choice should come back, cause its kinda nice for us to pick our favorites, and personally I would rather win one of those than to place in a class.

[Ron]

This is Ron. I will answer this one for Rick. The last couple years we barely had an average of 100 vehicles buy a judge card. We had over 100 awards available. That is why we now have less awards. It dilutes it if everyone who basically wanted judged got an award. The participant choice went away for two reasons. One is that there were barely 50 or so ever turned in. The other is that we kept getting asked to do Daily Driver awards, so I swapped them out. I will be glad to add in awards should we see an increase in the show trucks at the events. This is a transition year, especially in this economy, and we will adjust accordingly next year.

A lot of these questions for Rick on judging would have been answered at the seminar, please attend, they give the latest information, even if you been a Jambo participant for years, there is always something new!

[PIGG]

Yeah, I guess I understand that. I mean some classes there are barely any vehicles in it. But, for the classes with Ford, Chevys, and Dodges, there are always enough of them to give awards. Even with the economy, I understand the attendance is down, because there has been less and less trucks over the years. The registration price hasn't changed with the economy, that could be another reason for people not coming.

Ron, Im just a big fan of the Participant Choice Awards as well as the 1st 2nd and 3rd for atlest Ford, Chevy and Dodge, full size truck. Just for the fact that there are so many trucks in those classes regardless of the show size.

[Ron]

The numbers I am speaking of is the number of ones wanting judged. That has been at around 100 for the past 3-4 years, and just a little more than that previous. Our numbers are up as far as total event participants. Say at Indy, we have 4000 trucks, only 100 bought a judging card. Not a big percentage. It shows that people are coming for other reasons and things have to be shifted towards them. The show-n-shine is still an important feature of the events, and as it grows I will adjust accordingly. This is as I said a test year for this and we can go from there for next year. We have done this in our car shows for 8 years now and people love it! They have the exact number of awards as we do for the trucks. We have big car shows that have over 5000 cars. (Car Craft Summer Nationals).

[Deviant]

but if we are going off the way that rick said he was gonna judge, the chance of having someone different placing for and award might be different now that every vehicle on the grounds is being considered not just someone who filled out a card, but with the smaller amount of awards given out the same names are still heard

[Ron]

That is true, and that is why if we see a lot of new show vehicles, we will adjust next yeasr to add more awards. Some real cool trucks may have been coming and did not want to go through the hassle of the gridlock to get judged so just came to enjoy the event. Now they would be thrown into the mix, so some new trucks may be winning.

[tom vandevender]

lima is just to much of a big springbreak party then a show alot people i know dont go just for that reason sure you had more people at the meeting in springfield then lima but there where show trucks there then lima 90%of the trucks at lima are for the party im all about a good time but its a little to much at times . so why would you bring a truck to lima you put alot of money in to have mud rocks and smoke flung on it !

[Trained Judging Squirrel]

I just wanted to share this letter with the TSN group on this forum. I have read a couple of times that the same people are being called out for awards. I wish this participant would have written me within this forum, but here it is. I know it is just one, but there were others. Some of the same trucks did win and will continue...just nice top quality vehicles.

First off, let it be known that I am not here to complain, lol. After attending Jamboree's for 14 years or so I finally won an award. I was very happy, I do not think of my truck as a show truck by any means, as it gets driven 3 to 4 times a week and sits outside since it doesn't fit in my garage. It is built to function and perform, but I try to keep it as nice looking as possible. I do have a few questions if you get some spare time to answer them…. The highlight of my truck is from the frame down as I see it. Thanks for your time and looking forward to Canfield and Indy!

Jay

[Trained Judging Squirrel]

Let me add something to what Ron stated. Ron and I talked about “Participant Awards” in Missouri. The twelve (12) that you the participant used to vote on at one time. In the past I would have to go through all of the ballots at every show. Because 50% of the time the “Under Construction” vote would go to a top ten truck, maybe the same truck that pulled down “Best Paint”.

Was this intentional? Sure it was, evidently it would be funny to have a group of people vote for a friend with a Modified or Pro truck and watch his expression as his name was called for “Under Construction” at awards. The same for “Best Personalized Plate”, many times I have changed this to an actual personalized plate not just plate number 589 QHI. Groups, clubs, families…I don’t know, but we would get a stack of ballots all filled out with the same Sharpe, same handwriting and voting for the exact same participant numbers.

Rick